Refugee Dream Center Interview

Hello everyone. I am here with Dr. Omar Bah the founder of the Refugee Dream center. And he is going to tell us about the process detainees go through after being taken by ice, including conditions of detention centers and countries that have arrangements with the United States to take deported immigrants. So first off, what is the overall process detainees go through after being taken by ice?

Sometimes they get detained. And some of them are summarily deported back to their home countries or to third countries based on arrangements with the US Federal government. Some go through the court system because the Homeland Security takes them to court and the courts approve the deportation. But some, there’s no process. You know, they just get deported. You know, some, some actually don’t have any reason to be deported. But the, the problem is when they get sent to third countries that they are not citizens of or they have no connection with, it becomes even more problematic because those countries just have arrangements with the US Government to, for fear of San or maybe for want of financial or foreign aid. And they accept that. And those people become miserably suffering and traumatized in those countries because they don’t belong and they have no connection with those countries.

I actually just have a follow up to that. What countries have made agreements to take deported immigrants? And does this mean people are being deported to areas they are not familiar with? And why is this significant?

No, actually they take them to back home, but a lot of them get taken to third countries that have a deal with the US and what happens is some of them, maybe that’s not their country is not accepting us to deport people back home when they, you know, because the other countries want to be, to be in the books of the U.S. state Department. And if you are aware, there is a list of over, I think 39 countries that are on a travel ban, some sort of a travel ban, some of them full ban, no travel at all to the U.S. these are some of the countries we think that refuse to comply with some of these deportation requirements that are accepting people that are not even their citizens. So eventually the US start blacklisting folks. Some countries are afraid of that, like Ghana, Rwanda, I think El Salvador or San Salvador. A lot of countries across the world end up accepting these people based on one fear of being sanctioned or being put in travel ban or actually even further not getting foreign aid from the US So they accept individuals. And actually, for instance, Ghana has taken so many West Africans who they end up deporting. So you accept them from deportation on the premise that you’re going to take care of them, then you end up deporting because actually a lot of Gambians, for instance, a lot of people from different countries, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, end up being deported to Ghana. Then they have no connection to. And they end up taking to different countries, like even Venezuelans taking to El Salvador prisons, very brutal prisons. And they had no connection to that. And then they get tortured and imprisoned there for long periods. And because El Salvador is getting a lot of millions of dollars from the U.S. trump government, and then eventually, then those people suffer there and if they are lucky, they get released and eventually find their way back home, which is what is happening across the world. That’s the interpretation system that has been happening under the current administration. It’s really beyond violation of human rights.

On the same topic of a violation of human rights, there have been some reported detention centers I’ve seen mostly in New York that are overcrowded and just not suitable to live in. Are there any nearby detention centers that are having these same problems?

Yeah, absolutely. I’ve been to. Actually I’ve been to the Plymouth State State State Correctional Facility in Plymouth, Massachusetts. It’s about an hour drive from here or a little bit over an hour from Providence. So it’s extremely painful when I went there because one of my clients detained there for about close to two months. He was deported back to Mauritania, where actually he was. And he was enslaved. He was applying for asylum here, and he lived here for about two years. Then Trump arrested him and sent ice, arrested him and sent him back to Mauritania. But while he was detained at the Plymouth State Correctional Facility in Massachusetts, I went there and some of my staff also went there. But I went there once with a lawyer, and it’s sad because we had to actually put in money for him to be able to buy basic things like toothpaste, you know, snacks and stuff. He had nothing. Soap and basic stuff he had to buy for himself. You know, otherwise he’s literally just dumped there. Maybe get some basic food. That’s it. Or even soap, basic stuff. We had to call a prison number. Then they tell us where to impute a credit card, a number and an amount we want to pay. Then he can get the money in detention to be able to buy basic stuff in order to be able to live. That’s the inhumane situation where immigrant and detainees leave him. And one day he was summarily bundled together, taken to New York and put in a plane. Taken back after about two months of detention, and it’s now back. He’s enslaved in Mauritania, back Right now. And we’ve seen dozens of stories like this. It’s extremely emotionally nerve wracking.

In the case where people’s family members are taken, how are the family members made aware of it? I’ve heard the communication isn’t good for mice officers and they’re kind of going after people with no rhyme or reason. If it’s a client of yours, do they find out through you or other ways?

Yeah, absolutely, they find out. Yes, if it is our client, they find out through us. Or if it’s through witnesses, people you know see, then they find out. Otherwise there’s no way to find out because they don’t tell them anything. The eyes don’t feel accountable to anybody, literally. That’s why us, because from an advocacy point of view, we call it kidnapping because you really come in, you recently profile somebody and then arrest them. And then you don’t inform anybody and then nobody knows, even their lawyers. You don’t tell. And then if we are looking to find out, we go to the lawyers, the lawyers reach out, they compel them to provide information. So it gets a little bit difficult for at least at some point we get there. But there’s no way to find out unless you know, and then you go to the lawyers. Then the lawyers reach out through the courts or through the two eyes and start facilitating that kind of access. Otherwise it’s difficult. What happens is they usually walk around neighborhoods or schools or places like even our office. Sometime some Afghani clients from Afghanistan run into the office because ICE was chasing them when they came in because they don’t have a judicial warrant. We did not open our doors. They did not even knock. They were in the neighborhood, but did not try to run into our doors because they know we will not open. We were from an advocacy perspective and we called another group of advocates. It’s called the Defense Coalition of Rhode Island. They came in. So we had like literally an army of activists, you know, here. So they couldn’t arrest them because if they don’t come with the judicial warrant, we will not unless they bring the doors, which I doubt they will do. So basically that’s what happened. So that’s how they arrest people. They racially profile them. They look at your color. If you are non white, that’s one factor. If you speak with an accent, that’s another factor. And so then they walk in to people and ask whether you are an American citizen. I mean, what the heck would you are. What is the. That is. That is so un American to walk into somebody because they are black or spread an accent and ask them to prove they are citizens. That should be actually illegal, but they are doing it anyway. A masked person, somebody you cannot identify come in. Some of them, they are not even in uniform. You don’t even know whether they are bandits or real law enforcement officers will walk up to you because of your color or your accent and ask you to prove your citizenship. And a lot of the people don’t know their rights, or maybe they are scared, they just comply and they arrest them. You know, so the example of the guy I’m telling you, they mounted, they parked next to his house, they arrest and at least three people, and he was the fourth one and they were just recently profiling them. So basically that’s how it works. It’s a very tough situation right now because right now even our staff, they had to distribute food. Some of them spend the entire day driving around distributing food to families because they’re afraid to come out to pick up food to the center from the center because they think ICE will be around. So that’s why it’s just been a difficult period.

Also in relation to the courthouses in Providence specifically, I know there’s the Deportation Defense Network warning residents when ICE is around, but are there rumors that someone could potentially be tipping off ICE agents when people are going to be there for hearings? Do you think this could be true or how could they be figuring out when people will be there?

It’s a rumor. It’s potential that’s. We think it’s possible. There’s no way to prove it if somebody’s tipping them off. But it’s something that we think is possible. But ICE has records of things. They have records of police departments, criminal records, court records. So they know when people are coming to court. So they will find out one way or the other. Sometimes they don’t know. Sometimes they’re just mounting watch there. They’re outside the courtroom. So they start following people so they know who is coming in and out and they are not afraid to racially profile people. They see somebody walking out of the courtroom, they barricade their movement, you know, then start asking to prove their documentation and then they find reason to arrest them. So those are some of the things that they are doing. And then the, the, the other problem with this court related stuff is that people, when they have court dates, they cannot avoid going. They have to go. Because if you don’t go, then you, you have like some problems with, with the church also, because it’s like you violated something or you did not show up. The treatment can even be passed in your absence. So that’s why you have to show up. And you show up. You are in danger of eyes because they’re mounting watch over there. So, and then they will sometimes even if they don’t know nobody tips them up, they still will confront you. They don’t care. They don’t care whether it’s illegal or not.

With having to show up to court and not going could potentially harm the individual’s case. Are people trying to make remote hearings accessible like they were in the COVID pandemic?

Absolutely. We’ve actually advocated for that. We are advocating, we’re making a lot of, putting a lot of pressure to advocate for that. I think I even remember signing a petition to make sure courts are doing that, but I don’t. Hopefully we are hopeful that maybe it will happen because it’s always a work in progress. But that would be the best alternative to make sure ICE is not kidnapping people from court premises or outside court premises because then they know people are showing up in person and then protecting them. But this zoom thing can happen. You know, that’s what they were doing during COVID Perfect.

Well, that’s all the questions I have for you. Is there anything else you would like to add that you want people to know about the Refugee Dream center or just in general?

So we are a refugee resettlement agency. So our mission has two parts. One, initially when we were founded, we were focus on like doing the regular social service for people who are already in the country, refugees who are already in the country who’ve been here for at least a couple of months and talk for that. So we help them for as long as they need it. They need those services. And we, our work is generally around, you know, direct services that involve case management, you know, wraparound services, you know, employment, everything, English classes, literally, and advocacy. Everything that the individual needs to be, to adjust into American society and be self sufficient. So that’s what we do. And then even we say refugees, that’s the main population. But we work with everybody, immigrants, asylum seekers, so everybody who is in that community. And in the past couple of years we also added a new version to our mission, which is initial resettlement. You know, how the American government resettles refugees from all over the world. Except right now, right now everything is banned. But in normal times, you know, they resettle a couple of thousands every year. So in Providence we take in a couple of hundreds to our center and then, you know, we do the initial 90 day resettlement and picking up from the airport house. We had the initial stuff that connects them with the federal government. They bring them from outside, and we do the work from here. So that’s a new version of our mission. So the initial 90 days and then the longer term case management for as long as the person needs the services. So basically, that’s what we do. And so it’s been tough right now with funding, with arrests and fear, and it’s just, you know, a mix of a lot of struggles that are happening within the immigrant and refugee community.

Well, thank you so much for your time. I know with everything going on, your schedule is probably busy, so thank you for taking the time to meet with me.

By: Addison Mason